If you don't have sports programs in schools, then your going to have people moving out of school districts and no one moving in, then who's going to pay for the schools.

Also, sports teams raise a lot of their own money though fund raising.

Wow is that narrow minded. Sports and clubs which have philanthropic missions teach group goal setting, working and achievement. aka TEAMWORK? Roger, I am sure in your job, as most people do, work within a framework of a group. These are part of the lif lessons learned at school. Children are different and are reached/educated in different ways. Clubs and sports sometimes keep kids focused on school which if you know any, have raised any or ever were once a teenager can be a challenge. Or you were a geek and the jocks picked on you?

LH... No, neither a geek, no one the jocks picked on.

Teamwork is important. People work together in nearly all settings of living life. How well a team works together depends largely on the individuals making up the team. Some people works well in teams, others not very well. In some cases, it is learned, in most cases, it is part of a person's character.

I agree with you that children learn in different ways. Sports can foster the teamwork learning experience. Sports can also foster many other character traits, some of which helpful (e.g. respect), others of which are detrimental (e.g. pride).

Sports programs used to be far more helpful than in the past decade. Sports has changed dramatically in the past 10-15 years. Sports at high school level are largely driven by a quest to be good in college sports, and the quest at the college level is driven by being part of the professional sports scene. The money-driven mentality of sports at all levels has taken what was a good training ground into one that puts focus on the negative aspects (e.g. money, life-aspiration, celebrity).

There are many places to learn the teamwork that you speak about. Sports USED to be one of those places, but no longer. Our country as faded from academic excellence because of distractions, sports being a primary distraction.

Put sports into club activities, and let those interested parties manage the programs. Let schools focus on education.

Charter schools often start with underperforming students for many reasons. Customizing their education may or may not remediate problems of several years standing in just a year or two. Still, if they can't sho reasonable progress in a reasonable period, they need to lose their charter. Catholic schools nationally have an excellent record of raising student achievement over a relatively short period and are a good investment of tax dollars and in the future of our most vulnerable students.

By the way, I have spent my professional career in education in 2 states as a substitute in 7 middle and high schools and 21 years as a librarian in a Catholic high school. My own 3 sons had elementary and middle public schools and Catholic high school that prepared them well for their careers in education, insurance and accounting respectively.

Well said later, Roger!

Baldwin is losing children to Charter/Cyber schools because of the academic standard they are not providing to our students. Can't blame parents who pull their children out of the district either to get their children a better education.

That special attention needs to come from professionally trained teachers and charter schools DO NOT provide that due to unqualified teachers. For example, if a child has a challenge that needs more attention dont you want al his teachers to be trained to observe and provide support a all times? Gym teachers, music teachers and several other subjects at charter schools use non certified teacher. Some were never in college. Certified teachers in every classroom blow the charter business model out of the water. Labor is always the most expensive thing in any business.

BETTER education? think again.
Cyber schools high in profit, low in results http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/13/education/online-schools-score-better-on-wall-street-than-in-classrooms.html?pagewanted=all

i agree too much time and money is being drained from public schools budgets by sports. what good is having a championship team if they aren't proficient in basic reading writing & arithmetic.

that said, it makes no sense to hold cyber schools to a less stringent standard than the public schools. in an age where most of our jobs require more education than ever before, we do ourselves a huge disservice by lowering the standards for any school. we should be making it harder to meet the standards, not easier. especially for schools whose purpose is to drain public funds from the public schools to the private sector.

In a sense I agree. On the other hand, athletics and physical health are really important to a person's overall happiness. Some students excel at sports more than they do in the arts or academics, and they should be allowed to hone their talents in the same way intellectually and artistically gifted students are allowed to. So I think athletics shouldn't be automatically discounted in an education in deference to academics and the arts.
I do think that the money we spend on athletics and physical education is spent in a terribly inefficient way, which I think you hinted at. We build a stadium and fields and basketball courts so that a minority of students can gain from playing some of the more popular sports. I'd like to see more children playing sports -- even the less talented ones -- and to do that we should place an emphasis on the relatively less expensive sports like cross country and track that everyone can participate in and that teach skills and habits that can be used for the rest of a students life.
Still I'm amazed at how little I knew about staying healthy after there were no more soccer, football, and baseball leagues to participate in. That's why we need phys ed to be less about dodge-ball and be more about the incredibly important skills that children need to learn to stay healthy after they're done with school. In other words, they should be real classes with real grades and high expectations.

Oren, you ignorant idiot. The Jefferson model was written by a man who owned slaves. That should tell you about the timeliness of its wisdom. They used to stone people for planting different crops next to each other, should we use that as a guide to law enforcement? If you missed the reference is from the bible. Kids used to go to school and then tend the crops. Thats why we are still on the 9 month schedule we are on. Its as outdated as your comments and you.

So true, Oren. I don't get why high schools and colleges should be farm teams for professional sports. Professional sports are greed and drug ridden, with too often debauched life style. Not really a good example of work life balance. So glad my talented athlete was smart enough to bail on college sports in favor of a real education.

It is located in the pictures

WOW Ralph. Where in the article does it talk about guns and the NRA?????

Yes Ralph...focus on the intent of the article

Yet despite all that we are in fact the only superpower left in the world. know you'll say that CHina and Japan owns our debt, tell them to come try and call their markers. German students study their entire lives for a chance that they might get to come to the USA and learn medicine or engineering. Innovations are made here. Americans love smart people but there are more average people than anything else, hance the term average. So most people would rather watch a sporting event than a chemistry expedient If that makes un anti-intellect then sign me up. BTW... its soccer games in coutries all over the world where they regularly riot over wins and losses...right? Yeah and we're the barbarians. LOL Sie sind ein Dummkopf

Sometimes you have to see the broader picture. The uses of tax dollars may or may not support a healthy society. Disaffected kids often become predators of one kind or another. The purpose of education traditionally has been to promote good citizenship and develop talents/interests to build a healthy society.

The difference is that charter schools take money out of those under-performing schools because the school district has to pay the tuition of a student in the district attending a charter school. We've allowed charter schools to take money out of local schools because the charter schools claim they do a better job. If they are not doing a better job than their whole basis for existence has evaporated. If they don't perform better, than they are simply leeching taxpayer dollars from already cash-strapped school districts and they're not contributing any benefit in return.

Daniel, that is why school vouchers are needed to let a parent choose where they want to send their children. Baldwin School Board cuts money from our Technology Dept to make Dean of Student jobs because they owe someone a favor. We have lost many students to Charter/Cyber Schools because they aren't giving our children a good education. Students who graduated and going to CCAC having to take high school classes before they can take college courses isn't a good thing.

CC -- The charter schools are clearly not offering a better choice though. We're talking about public money here. Taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for a choice that adds no value to a child's education and simultaneously deteriorates the quality of the school local school district. It is simply money that is not efficiently spent. I have no problem with publicly funded educational choices -- but those choices need to offer real and clear benefit for the money spent.

Daniel, how can you say charter schools aren't offering a better choice. Most students who go to them get a better education. Parents are opting for charter/cyber schools because school districts like Baldwin/Whitehall don't care that our children get a good education.
School Districts don't send 100% of the money allotted to each student to the Charter/Cyber school, they get to keep 30% of the money.

School vouchers should be given out and a parent should have the choice of where they want their children to go to school.

CC --Students are not getting a better education in most cases. Clearly not in the case of the cyber charter schools. None of them made AYP. And the brick and mortar charter schools didn't make AYP at a rate even close to local school districts.
Charter schools are just the next way to open up traditionally government services to the private sector. If you think these people care about giving kids a good education you must be out of your mind.

The state can and does step into underperforming schools, take them over if they need, and provide interventions to improvements, but not often enough.

http://www.pacyber.org/view-bulletin.jsp?restrictids=nu_repeatitemid&restrictvalues=2161392240601314001200261

Made AYP again! Lt. Gov. announces during visit
August 22, 2011
PA Cyber has made AYP for the third consecutive year. The state lieutenant governor himself visited Aug. 22 to make the announcement.

Made AYP again! Lt. Gov. announces during visit
August 22, 2011

Did you not see that this has all changed? They made AYP by getting a less stringent measuring device! That was the whole point of the article.

The U.S Department of Education required the state's education department to recalculate the academic performance of charter schools for 2011-12. The data showing a marked decline in the number of schools that met targets for AYP and an increase in those charter schools that are in the warning, improvement or corrective action status categories.

last paragraph above is quoted from article

I agree home schooled kids are usually smarter. But they are socially more awkward. Learning to work and play well with others is as important as reading, writing and arithmetic. A well rounded education is what is needed.

Quoting: "... o,think,with a computer and an untrained parent you can have positive results is preposterous . Children learn as much usable knowledge from the other students as they learn from the books. To keep a child at home not involved daily with other children is in my opinion a crime. ..."

The Homeschooling community would strongly disagree with you. Homeschooled students usually perform better than public school students. The schooling is done at home, by parents using materials prepared by others. "... learn from other students...." Yes, to a very limited extent. The skill of self-discipline, self-learning is lost with the spoon-fed approach often used in public schools, AND expected by many parents. Remember, the parents are ultimately responsible for educating their children. While many choose to abrogate off a portion of the education to public schools, or private schools, the parents are the ultimate educator in the home.

Just so these comments aren't taken off track, the idea of "child at home not involved daily ..." is a bogus argument against alternative forms of education. Most homeschoolers belong to co-op programs, the students have time to be involved in many other outside activities (e.g. music, art, field trips). Public school students don't have that flexibility. There is no shortage of opportunities to be involved with other students, adults, and other learning activities not choreographed by a professional educator.

Remember, the average "learning time" for an elementary student in public schools is 45 minutes per day. All other time is spent in transportation, administrative, and other activities unrelated to learning.

There is good reason why some parents have chosen "alternative" forms of education for their child. Things have changed dramatically in the past 15 years.

Some will advance the "socialization skills" argument for having a child in public schools. With the behaviors and attitudes displayed by many students in public schools, there is good reason NOT to have your child involved. Just because certain social behaviors and attitudes are the norm and practiced by most students does not mean they are desirable by the parent, and good for the student. So, please skip the argument about the "child needs socialization with other children in the public schools." These arguments are a failed path.

Bill my grandson down in Va Beach goes to a Charter/Cyber school. He has to be at his work area at 8 am Mon-Fri to begin classes. He also has to have his cam activated so that his teacher knows he is in class. They do learn from other students in the classes besides books. My grandson also goes to the school 3 days a week for gym and health classes and participates in the school districts sports programs. Why he is in Charter/Cyber school is because the school is so worried about children who have IEP's but they don't care about students who are above there grade level. My grandson is 8 years old but taking classes in 7, 8 and 9th grade. They can't provide transportation between classes to move him back and forth between the high school and middle school as they are 14 miles away from each other. He is thriving in school and also gets to be with students his own age at the grade school that he is suppose to be going to.

Bill, the school district does keep a percentage of the money allowed so that students who are home schooled can participate in classes and sports at the school district if the parent chooses to use this option. These children also participate in soccer, dancing, gymnastics, football, hockey, baseball outside of the school and aren't locked up in their homes 24/7. It is a shame that we got Schools like Baldwin who don't want to give our students the Education they deserve.

@Roger and Bill
I am neither for or against homeschool. I have seen where it has worked and it has failed with a "computer and an untrained parent." The difference I saw as Roger said was that one parent was organized and disciplined in the approach while the other was not. Much like the same we may see in our public school teachers.

Sincerely,
former public school teacher

All students are entitled to a quality education. If some have disabilities/learning differences, they need to be accommodated to compete on a level playing field. That's just and necessary.

You betcha. Because it's public education. Many school districts + Catholic schools manage to educate students ready and able to take College in High School and AP classes and transition smoothly into 4 year colleges. Still, the number of students who drop out before completing college, even over 6 years is ridiculous. There are too many unprepared students admitted to college, costing state tax dollars and draining resources for more able students.

You are already paying for one on one para-educators in the PR district to accompany students to after school activities like dances and play or talent show practices. You just don't know about it.

Those funds are for every child in the least restrictive environment. Evidently, you've never known a student who benefited from such programs. I am old enough to remember when doctors would tell parents that their child born with Down's Syndrome would never walk, talk or learn and should be dropped off at a "home" and not visited because there was no point. We know better now because brave parents took their children home, stimulated them and saw that what the doctor told them based on knowledge of the time just wasn't true and didn't have to be.

SWYKLocal - I agree with you, Cyber Schools are needed. My 'alternatives' were activities that drain school time and moneys as high profile sports programs that could become a community interest instead. -- It will not happen, of course, but I think it should.

I don't disagree with your assessment. But, the attitude that "it is only $xxxx" is what gets us into financial problems. It is easy to pin blame somewhere else, while keeping our own pet projects protected. As Everett Dirksen used to say, "A million here, a million there, another million here, ... pretty soon, it adds up to serious money." He made this statement when millions was used instead billions in today's language.

This is the problem with any public funded budgets. "Oh, this isn't very much, so we need to add it (or keep it)." Guess what, the "isn't very much" adds up.

Sports programs should be moved out of public schools, regardless of the costs. The energy and focus has reached beyond reasonable levels in the past decade. As somebody above pointed out, schools are about education. Our insatiable appetite for sports in recent years has derailed our focus. Nobody is to blame, except those who have chosen to take it down that path recently. Take the 1.8% our of the budget, and give it back to the taxpayers.

Check your facts....all Im saying Kevin...

Video of all the North Hills School Board meetings are available online. Watch them. I do. Most meetings don't even have sports on the agenda at all...

When will reading, writing, math, and science be more important than employees, their pensions, sports scores, and keeping up appearances?

I agree. Pennsylvania school boards have been holding a gun to the heads of property owners since the 1830's. Pa HB/SB76 (formerly, HB1776 / SB1400) abolishes your school board's authority to seize your home and eliminates your School Property Tax with a much wider tax base, allowing the typical 10,000/yr Pa. foreclosure rate to decline, leaving an average $300./month in every homeowner's pocket, generating millions of jobs, .... helping to keep families together, ...
Instead of blaming cyber and/or charter schools, brick and mortar school boards need to take responsibility for their failures.

Carol Ann,

How on earth would the average homeower see an addtional $300 per month if all you do is move taxes from Property to Earned Income???? Many homeowners might actually see their taxes go up. I agree some would see them go down, but to state that the average homeowner would see about $4,000 in savings is stretching things a bit...

To Carol:

I have to chuckle when I see a post such as yours. To quote: "Pennsylvania school boards have been holding a gun to the heads of property owners since the 1830's" That is some funny stuff, thanks!

School Boards are elected citizens of your community. You elected them. You put the "gun" in their hands. And guess what? You can also take that "gun" out of their hands any day you choose to run for the Board.

Pa HB/SB76 (formerly, HB1776/SB1400) does indeed abolish your school board's and municipal government's authority to seize your property. HB/SB76 does indeed eliminate the School Property Tax, which is an average $300./month per homeowner across Pennsylvania. Commerical property owners save even more. .... When you eliminate a tax, the burden is indeed removed [or off].
Today, part of your earned income tax may already be going to your school district.
75-80% of public school funding is paid by property owners. The remaining 20-25% is paid by earned income and state income tax.
So, HB/SB76 eliminates the school property tax and widens the tax base by raising the state sales tax from 6 to 7% (still cheaper than NJ & NY) and raises the earned income tax from 3.1% to 4 or 5%.
Learn more by talking to folks at face book com/groups/pataxpayers

Just for honesty's sake here Carol:

PA HB76 does NOT eliminate school property taxes. You need to QUIT making that blatently FALSE statement. The Bill allows school districts to continue to levy property taxes to pay for all outstanding debt on their books since December 2011. So, if your particular district has some juicy 20 year bonds issued to pay for that pretty new school building, you would pay the new Sales Tax, the new Earned Income Tax AND some Property Taxes just to put a cherry on top of your tax sundae.

No matter how you slice the pie Carol, this Bill shifts the Tax Burden on to a lot of folks who cannot afford it. That also is a simple statement of truth.

And, how specifically does this Bill address the increases in PSERS payments that get handed to the districts every year??? The Bill required Revenue Neutrality. So, next year when the PSERS payments go up 16%, the district just has to grin and bear it????

Quoting: "... No matter how you slice the pie Carol, this Bill shifts the Tax Burden on to a lot of folks who cannot afford it. ..."

If this is really true, then PA would eliminate the lottery, and not give any consideration to expanding gambling as a source of income. Gambling in any form is a regressive tax on those least able to afford it. So, we can discount any assertion that a change in taxing structures from property tax to increases in sales tax, is a shift to those least able to afford.

My statement is not either a rejection of HB76 (or 1776?), or support, rather just a rebuttal of the statement made in a previous comment.

carol how comes this bill that you talk about is only on facebook. Guess facebook is the gospel of the government now

http://www.ptcc.us/solution.htm

HB1776, not HB76 (that was a transportation bill)

AGAIN, HB76 does NOT remove the Taxing Authority of the School Boards. Quit lying about it.

Carol Ann, non of what your saying is true unless your reading the bull on facebook.

Charter Schools should no be closed down. They MUST be evaluated to the same standard as all Public Schools, with the results of evaluations made public just as all of the Traditional Schools. In this way, parents can make an informed decision about where to send their kids.

Carol Ann, is honesty just not in your vernacular????

As I clearly stated above, HB76 does NOT eliminate the School Board's Authority to levy a Property Tax. You need to quit repeating that lie. Repeating it often, and ignoring the truth does not make you lie any more true.

As the Bill clearly states, School Boards will continue to levy Property Taxes to pay the Debt Service on any debts incurred prior to December 31, 2011. And I assume that date would move to the end of what ever year the Bill actually got passed.

So, AGAIN, if your District has a lot of debt because of recent construction or some such project, you will CONTINUE to get a Property Tax Bill. ON TOP OF THE NEW SALES TAX AND EARNED INCOME TAX.

Dear Frustrated,
I doubt that any proposal that says " ......School Property Tax bill you now get in August (sic)seizes to exist." is going anywhere other than FB.

Public Schools are required by our PA Constitution. Charter schools ARE Public Schools. They MUST be held to the same standards as the "regular" Public Schools. The current system has rules that must be implemented for any failing Public School (whether that be CyberCharter, Charter, or Traditional).

Let the charters follow the rules of the CHARTER they were granted!

M Hardt - then the same should be said about brick and mortar schools that are under performing that they shouldn't be allowed in the education business. "Can you tell me what STATES forced district to agree to the charter".

It is a parents right to decide if they want their child to go to a charter school then a brick and mortar school. Only 70% of the tuition is turned over and the district keeps 30%.
"PUBLIC SCHOOL CHOICE
If a child attends a Title I school that has been identified by the state for school improvement, corrective action, or restructuring, parents can choose to send the child to another public school that is not so identified. Districts must let parents know each year if their child is eligible to transfer to another school, and districts must give parents more than one transfer option if more than one exists. Districts must pay for students' transportation costs, giving priority to low-income, low-achieving students if there are not enough funds available to pay for all students.

In addition, the Voluntary Public School Choice Program supports efforts to establish or expand intradistrict, interdistrict, and open enrollment public school choice programs to provide parents, particularly parents whose children attend low-performing public schools, with expanded education options."

http://www2.ed.gov/parents/schools/choice/definitions.html

Not one cyber charter school in the state and fewer than one-third of 'brick-and-mortar' charter schools made Adequate Yearly Progress last year. This IS talking about both cyber charters and brick and mortar charters.

Baldwin-Whitehall school board voted 8-to-1 against the approval of an application by the Young Scholars of Western Pennsylvania Charter School for a charter school. But B-W's decision was overruled by the state Department of Education.

M Hardt, The same should be said of School Districts that are under performing. Baldwin didn't make AYP this year so why should the state give the district money as they aren't giving our children the education they deserve.

The article invited our viewpoints on the question asked about charter schools.
I shared mine, as have others.
You asked two questions, I answered you with factual information.
I am not interested in a pissing match with you over your negative views of district schools.
GO BALDWIN BORO!!

http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/PA%20State%20Report_20110404_FINAL.pdf

Excuse me, I had neglected to include the link to the CREDO report mentioned above.

So, what if almost every "regular" school in the school district you live in also under performed, which is the case where I am. Are we closing the charter schools (cyber and brick), which I happen to think has a better cirriculum and sending all our students to a under performing public school? That sounds like a step backward to me. Rules should apply to all schools.